Is $625,000.00 Too Much?

[triverse]

Ok, for about 6 years now I have been persuing the purchase, or at least the owner, of Gamefan Magazine (call me idealistic) just to see what it would be going for. After many months, maybe a year, of searching I finally got in contact with a gentleman that claimed to own the rights to the magazine. We talked back and forth and finally after feeling confident about his truthfulness, I started thinking it would be a good idea to know how much this was going to cost before persuing funding from investers.

Well, everything came to a head recently, I think that is the term used, when I got to accompany two investers to a meeting about Gamefan and all related materials (including original mag prints of everything the magazine produced) and stuff like promotional items and photos (both signed by former staff and most not signed). Most importantly, this includes the rights to everything to do with as seen fit.

My question is, who here believes it would have been worth $625,000.00 total? They broke it down with 2 sets of numbers but would not sell individually.

The final offer was quite a bit less than that and was subsequently turned down just so you know.

Any opinions?

[E-Day]

THat's a lot of money for outdated information and such, but owning the original originals would certainly be something. I don't know if that money would be made back, but the opportunity to reprint issues and release them as volumes in a nice little box would make a lot of fans of the magazine happy. BUt not for that much.

[Hidinger]

Ok, for about 6 years now I have been persuing the purchase, or at least the owner, of Gamefan Magazine (call me idealistic) just to see what it would be going for. After many months, maybe a year, of searching I finally got in contact with a gentleman that claimed to own the rights to the magazine. We talked back and forth and finally after feeling confident about his truthfulness, I started thinking it would be a good idea to know how much this was going to cost before persuing funding from investers.

Well, everything came to a head recently, I think that is the term used, when I got to accompany two investers to a meeting about Gamefan and all related materials (including original mag prints of everything the magazine produced) and stuff like promotional items and photos (both signed by former staff and most not signed). Most importantly, this includes the rights to everything to do with as seen fit.

My question is, who here believes it would have been worth $625,000.00 total? They broke it down with 2 sets of numbers but would not sell individually.

The final offer was quite a bit less than that and was subsequently turned down just so you know.

Any opinions?

Well, it would be nice to be able to take charge and make NEW issues...but still...over half a million is definently not worth it in my opinion. There just isn't enough old stuff and enough name recognition for the new stuff to warrant that kind of input. Unless you have a half million to blow (or your investors) then I would say that it would take forever to get your moneys worth.

P.S. Make sure you have a good lawyer look over any and all of your paperwork before you sign anything. Some of these copyright/trademark/contract law issues can get rather complicated.

[E-Day]

A new magazine wouldn't last. The current ones are struggling as it is. Too bad the internet won't go away.

[meppi]

A new magazine wouldn't last. The current ones are struggling as it is. Too bad the internet won't go away.

That's what I thought. If even magazines like EGM, which is one of the biggest names in gaming magazines today, is having trouble keeping it's head above the water. I'm afraid a new magazine, even if it were to continue on the Gamefan legacy would have an extremely difficult time.

Something like RetroGamer seems to be one of the few which have created it's own niche and run with it. But then again, the mag has gone belly up once already.

It's pretty sad actually since there's something special about getting a mag in the mail and going through the pages wondering what's inside.

Reading all the latest news on the web just isn't the same for some reason. Too bad the majority thinks otherwise.

[Hidinger]

That's what I thought. If even magazines like EGM, which is one of the biggest names in gaming magazines today, is having trouble keeping it's head above the water. I'm afraid a new magazine, even if it were to continue on the Gamefan legacy would have an extremely difficult time.

Something like RetroGamer seems to be one of the few which have created it's own niche and run with it. But then again, the mag has gone belly up once already.

It's pretty sad actually since there's something special about getting a mag in the mail and going through the pages wondering what's inside.

Reading all the latest news on the web just isn't the same for some reason. Too bad the majority thinks otherwise.

I totally agree with you, I can't even explain how excited I got at the beginning of every month knowing my copy of Nintendo Power would be in the mail any day. I use to get in trouble taking it to school the next day. There was something about flipping each page and seeing something new and awesome that really excited me. But sadly now we are in the age of Instant Gratification. If the masses can not have something gratifying and instantaniously they don't want it. People would throw a fit if you told them that they had to wait an entire month to get all of the new information.

[E-Day]

That's what I thought. If even magazines like EGM, which is one of the biggest names in gaming magazines today, is having trouble keeping it's head above the water. I'm afraid a new magazine, even if it were to continue on the Gamefan legacy would have an extremely difficult time.

That is what Hardcore Gamer Magazine is doing. It's taken a lot of inspiration from GameFan, and has the nicest page layouts around, but it's tanking. At the beginning of the year, it went from monthly to quarterly. Quarterly! A game magazine, in this day and age, publishing only 4 times a year. It's like a company going under and laying a ton of people off to try and save themselves. They don't really do reviews anymore either. The latest had only two reviews. They focus on articles mostly, and previews. I also can't find it on the newsstands. But I can download it for free from their site.

And EGM will be the one who caused their own demise. That magazine has been terrible for years.

[meppi]

And EGM will be the one who caused their own demise. That magazine has been terrible for years.

Sadly I do have to agree there. I loved EGM back in the day.

Making sure the local shop imported the magazine, even if it was only just for me. And to my surprise they actually did.

But then I did buy 5-6 different magazines each month.

I'm not exactly sure when I stopped buying them, but I know it was after the demise of the DC.

That seemed to have not only sucked much of the life out of the industry, but out of gaming magazines as well. At least for me. But I have mentioned that before.

[JoNJoN]

The mags in the US today are failing because they are all CRAP!!! Game Informer is nice becuz it has pictures and seems to always get exclusives on upcoming games every month (Uncharted 2 this month) so that is nice. Play, I don't even know what to think of that mag anymore after some of the reviews I have read in it. I don't think a bad game exists to those guys. Gamepro and EGM, I really don't even need to say anything.

If people would gets off their computers and realize that reading a well written, well layed out, well researched, well put together and so on mag can be quite an enjoyable experience, I think a mag could do very well here in the states. If GameFan was to be resurrected, I would shoot for a target like GamesTM. That mag has got it all every month.

[Thor]

I miss the old comics they had in that magazine. And there was somthing about the artwork though it was not great but I loved it. Anyway yeah that's a lot of money to spend to not really be able to do much with the magazine in general.

[Hidinger]

If people would gets off their computers and realize that reading a well written, well layed out, well researched, well put together and so on mag can be quite an enjoyable experience, I think a mag could do very well here in the states. If GameFan was to be resurrected, I would shoot for a target like GamesTM. That mag has got it all every month.

Dood! Stop being teh h8ter and wake up and realize that my review of Uncharted 2 and why is sux so hard is OVER 9000 times greater then joo or joor stupid magazine that is just paid by sony to write a review that is "epic" so the stupid people will buy it. I am not stupid. I am smarter then all o fyou.

THAT is the kind of crap people would rather read then a well thought out article in a magazine. I kinda just pieced that together from a bunch of different gamefaqs posts, but still. Seriously though. People would rather read a quick article online then bitch about / sing praises of a game before it even comes out. Everyone wants to put their two cents in and show how they are better / more correct then everyone else. I just don't think you can make a hard copy magazine sell without a HUGE following...you would need an almost cult like following to do it. Face it. Nintendo Power is riding on being a first party mag with a long running history. If they shut their doors for 2 years then came back out with the mag it would tank sooooo freaking hard.

[triverse]

Dood! Stop being teh h8ter and wake up and realize that my review of Uncharted 2 and why is sux so hard is OVER 9000 times greater then joo or joor stupid magazine that is just paid by sony to write a review that is "epic" so the stupid people will buy it. I am not stupid. I am smarter then all o fyou.

THAT is the kind of crap people would rather read then a well thought out article in a magazine. I kinda just pieced that together from a bunch of different gamefaqs posts, but still. Seriously though. People would rather read a quick article online then bitch about / sing praises of a game before it even comes out. Everyone wants to put their two cents in and show how they are better / more correct then everyone else. I just don't think you can make a hard copy magazine sell without a HUGE following...you would need an almost cult like following to do it. Face it. Nintendo Power is riding on being a first party mag with a long running history. If they shut their doors for 2 years then came back out with the mag it would tank sooooo freaking hard.

It is the general fanboyism of Gamefaqs as to why I posted it over here, and only here. Besides, I was interested in actual intelligent responses to the situation.

[Hidinger]

It is the general fanboyism of Gamefaqs as to why I posted it over here, and only here. Besides, I was interested in actual intelligent responses to the situation.

I agree with you, and I hope you didn't take it the wrong way. I think something like that would be a great opportunity. I just think that people are slipping into the gamefaqs fanboyism so fast that spending over half a million dollars in this economy would end up hurting in the long run. There are just way too many of those stupid fanboys anymore. People use to get magazines because they had awesome pictures and updates on games that they might not see or hear about again until their release date. Now, you can get stuff instantly. I am jealous of anyone who has even an opportunity to get a magazine of their own. I would love to see a good solid game mag make a comeback. I would gladly write some articles for you and even do actual honest reviews of stuff. I just wanted to stress the point that the main group (men age 10 - 25) are getting increasingly lazy and demanding (possibly stupider) to the point that print magazines for games just don't come out fast enough or follow their personal opinions close enough.

The best part would be having access to all of the historical files they have. But again, I don't know if the magazine has such a fan base to make up for that kind of cash output. He-Man action figures are trying to make a comback on less then 625,000 and they have a massive and loyal fan base. They aren't even sure they are going to be able to make it.

While it would be awesome, I just don't want to see you or the investors get in trouble because it is an awesome idea.

[triverse]

I agree with you, and I hope you didn't take it the wrong way. I think something like that would be a great opportunity. I just think that people are slipping into the gamefaqs fanboyism so fast that spending over half a million dollars in this economy would end up hurting in the long run. There are just way too many of those stupid fanboys anymore. People use to get magazines because they had awesome pictures and updates on games that they might not see or hear about again until their release date. Now, you can get stuff instantly. I am jealous of anyone who has even an opportunity to get a magazine of their own. I would love to see a good solid game mag make a comeback. I would gladly write some articles for you and even do actual honest reviews of stuff. I just wanted to stress the point that the main group (men age 10 - 25) are getting increasingly lazy and demanding (possibly stupider) to the point that print magazines for games just don't come out fast enough or follow their personal opinions close enough.

The best part would be having access to all of the historical files they have. But again, I don't know if the magazine has such a fan base to make up for that kind of cash output. He-Man action figures are trying to make a comback on less then 625,000 and they have a massive and loyal fan base. They aren't even sure they are going to be able to make it.

While it would be awesome, I just don't want to see you or the investors get in trouble because it is an awesome idea.

Hidinger, I apologise if you thought I was making that 'actual intelligent responses' at you or anyone else here. I meant, that I know, if I had posted this on the Gamefaqs message board that the fanboys would tear me a new one over how ignorant it sounds or some other trivial matter.

I have talked extensively with E-day about this situation and one of the ideas I had, if everything went through, was to do a retro-subscription service. E-day pointed out that the mail is not known for being dependable and that unwanted damage could be done to each mag. He mentioned the idea of doing annuals with a nice protective case or something. I like that idea, but each volume would probably have to be prohibitely priced for the casual (and possibly even the hardcore collector in these economic times) fan to buy.

Another problem I face in doing anything with the mags, if this goes through (haven't completely given up), is the licensed game ads. The ads from companies like Konami and such won't be problem, as they are owned by the magazine after printing and usually there are agreements that they can be reprinted and such. The problem is with games based on Disney, Warner Bros and Nickelodean, etc games. Those ads would have to be re-negotiated to be reprinted as they are licensed properties.

Would it be the same without those licensed ads? There aren't that many that I have noticed. Just another opinion question there.

[Hidinger]

Would it be the same without those licensed ads? There aren't that many that I have noticed. Just another opinion question there.

The purest collector in me (the one that "HAS" to catch them all) says no. Any changes would destroy the collectability of them. I mean it would be like getting the old Nintendo Powers without the poster that doubles as a map. Something that we all know and remember loving. I mean come on, some of those old adds for games long forgotten are part of the nestalgia of the whole thing.

the part of me that wants to relive my past and video games past would say not to worry about it if it means that the magazine itself will come back.

Ugh. Guess I am totally bi-polar on this one.

Again, I think it is an awesome idea...but it just seems to be so expensive that you would need someone who had a half million to blow for the fun of it (Not expecting a profit). That way you could work and try to find a way that could eventually bring a revenue stream. Have you contacted Bill Gates and asked him for a grant or something?

[hahnchen]

I don't think a nineties brand has any relevance in this age. There's no benefit to owning the archives, all you're really paying for are the rights to the name.

You could use it to launch a GameFan website, and try to compete with GameSpot et al. But other than the name, what do you have? Do you really think that the magazine still carries any goodwill among gamers?

If you're going to enter the magazine industry, it's going to be hard. American games magazines are a total embarrassment, pamphlets and PR, they've been this way for a while. I don't know why the UK model of low circulation, high quality magazines isn't accepted in the states. I'm guessing because if you ran a high quality games mag, and kept it lower circulation, you wouldn't get any of the advertisers.

I would not invest $600,000 for GameFan.

[E-Day]

I don't know why the UK model of low circulation, high quality magazines isn't accepted in the states.

Probably because of the cost of distribution. The US is 2000 times larger than the UK, and 2 billion times larger when you consider that US magazines are also distributed to Canada. Hardcore Gamer magazine is high quality, and seems like it`s also low circulation, and it doesn`t seem to be doing well; they stopped publishing monthly with the December 2007 issue and only publish quarterly now. And the magazine is still thinner than the monthly issues were.

the only thing we can do is DESTROY THE INTERNET.

[triverse]

Probably because of the cost of distribution. The US is 2000 times larger than the UK, and 2 billion times larger when you consider that US magazines are also distributed to Canada. Hardcore Gamer magazine is high quality, and seems like it`s also low circulation, and it doesn`t seem to be doing well; they stopped publishing monthly with the December 2007 issue and only publish quarterly now. And the magazine is still thinner than the monthly issues were.

the only thing we can do is DESTROY THE INTERNET.

The main reason I can see the low circulation/high quality model not working in the US is that companies here, and people in general, are too focused on being number one with the highest possible distribution available even if it means shooting themselves in the foot. Look back at how Gamefan started, they had a print run of 5000 on the first issue, they didn't get to 10000 or higher until around the 3rd or 4th issue, which it worked for them, had they staid with their original publisher they may have still been around, express.com/gamecave started crippling it then with the money Eidos pumped in (reportedly 55 million dollars) I am sure some people changed roles as new ones were brought in.

[JoNJoN]

I would be willing to pay about $15 a month for a high quality magazine covering both current and retro. The mag would have to be along the lines of strategy guide material quality with the heavy stock cover, glossy pages, and no blur photos. I think you would also have to try to have an outreach on the net and try to build a large subscriber base. I wouldn't even waste my time with the newstands anymore except for maybe Barnes & Noble and Borders but thats all. Grocery stores and 7-11's are just covered with those waste of paper Maxim and Cosmopolitan type mags.

[triverse]

I would be willing to pay about $15 a month for a high quality magazine covering both current and retro. The mag would have to be along the lines of strategy guide material quality with the heavy stock cover, glossy pages, and no blur photos. I think you would also have to try to have an outreach on the net and try to build a large subscriber base. I wouldn't even waste my time with the newstands anymore except for maybe Barnes & Noble and Borders but thats all. Grocery stores and 7-11's are just covered with those waste of paper Maxim and Cosmopolitan type mags.

Well, at the moment the best I could get on a publishing deal for a magazine (just say for instance, a republish of Gamefan) would be about $15 an issue with a print run under a 1000. That is just publishing on 80 pound stock (the same as the original run of Gamefan under Halverson) with a 4 color cover and running about 100 pages (that would cover what the first say 10 issues or so of Gamefan).

[JoNJoN]

Ah, your just looking to republish magazines? Well that will kinda kill the value of my collection LOL I thought you were looking to make a new magazine. Maybe you could reprint specific articles from various previous magazines instead of whole magazines themselves? That whole retro section thing I was talking about. You could reprint an article on a game then write a new article about that game to go along with the reprint.

[triverse]

Ah, your just looking to republish magazines? Well that will kinda kill the value of my collection LOL I thought you were looking to make a new magazine. Maybe you could reprint specific articles from various previous magazines instead of whole magazines themselves? That whole retro section thing I was talking about. You could reprint an article on a game then write a new article about that game to go along with the reprint.

With an investment the size they want, there would more than likely be some kind of Gamefan presence surfacing either online or in print form that could produce revenue besides reprinting the old issues.

Your idea of running an article from a previous issue with a new article on an old game is something that E-day and me discussed, I believe, that Gamepro, EGM and even Game Informer could do for these virtual console releases and such. I like it, just wish more current mags would do it.

[hahnchen]

As an aside, I totally disagree with the assertion that Hardcore Gamer is a quality publication. Not just its content, but it's total lack of design.

----

I get the point about the distribution costs in the US, but couldn't a regional magazine be launched? Limited to a set amount of states? Surely, some of the larger metropolitan areas or states could support a games magazine.

[E-Day]

I find that Hardcore Gamer has the best layout and design of any of the magazines. All other magazines have a similar layout, with boring designs and lots of white backgrounds. HGM is actually interesting to look at when it comes to the layout. While I am not crazy about their content and lack thereof, I find their design and layout to be top notch.